By Shri Kesava Rao Tadipatri
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Madhvacharya-not-as-famous-as-others-like-Shankaracharya-or-Ramanujacharya/answer/Kesava-Tadipatri Original QA link..
If number is the criterion for philosophical strength, then Christian philosophy is much stronger than Hindu philosophy. But that is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous thing is to claim that the effort of the founder of thousands of years ago is a factor for today's strength. Even more ridiculous is the claim that Madhvacharya is not famous because he opposed Shankaracharya. Then by the same token Shankaracharya should not have been famous because he opposed Buddha's philosophy.
It is strange that people come up with this kind of ridiculous reasoning. It does not matter that Jesus Christ had only few hundred or at the most few thousand followers and same with Islam. Today Christianity has highest following, followed by Islam. The only reason for the fame and number is the propagation methods followed by the followers over centuries. Jesus Christ did not travel across the whole world and today Christianity is followed across the world. If Shankaracharya traveled across India once, Madhvacharya traveled across the length and breadth of India twice. He composed 37 works to his credit, all in Sanskrit, and not in any vernacular language.
Shankaracharya adds his personal opinion "jagat mithyA", and "jIvo brahmaiva nAparaH", to the valid statement "Brahma satyaM". The first two are not true and not supported by Vedas. Also in modern world, it is impossible to sell these ideas. One way out was to introduce two kinds of truth vyAvahArika satya and pAramArthika satya. What is relevant until one goes to mukti - vyAvahArika satya. So, it is practically Dvaita. Still not enough. So what ended up happening?
Advaita started gobbling up every free-floating branches of Hinduism as Advaita and the root philosophy of Shankaracharya can be seen only in the small circles of scholars, who believed "Brahma satyaM, jaganmithyA jIvo brahmaiva nAparaH". Just as every "south-Indian" is labelled as "MadrAssi" and yet is not from Madras, similarly every Hindu started to be labeled as Advaitin, though he never followed Advaita.
Art by Smt.Vani Rao, Baton Rouge,LA |
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Madhvacharya-not-as-famous-as-others-like-Shankaracharya-or-Ramanujacharya/answer/Kesava-Tadipatri Original QA link..
If number is the criterion for philosophical strength, then Christian philosophy is much stronger than Hindu philosophy. But that is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous thing is to claim that the effort of the founder of thousands of years ago is a factor for today's strength. Even more ridiculous is the claim that Madhvacharya is not famous because he opposed Shankaracharya. Then by the same token Shankaracharya should not have been famous because he opposed Buddha's philosophy.
It is strange that people come up with this kind of ridiculous reasoning. It does not matter that Jesus Christ had only few hundred or at the most few thousand followers and same with Islam. Today Christianity has highest following, followed by Islam. The only reason for the fame and number is the propagation methods followed by the followers over centuries. Jesus Christ did not travel across the whole world and today Christianity is followed across the world. If Shankaracharya traveled across India once, Madhvacharya traveled across the length and breadth of India twice. He composed 37 works to his credit, all in Sanskrit, and not in any vernacular language.
Shankaracharya adds his personal opinion "jagat mithyA", and "jIvo brahmaiva nAparaH", to the valid statement "Brahma satyaM". The first two are not true and not supported by Vedas. Also in modern world, it is impossible to sell these ideas. One way out was to introduce two kinds of truth vyAvahArika satya and pAramArthika satya. What is relevant until one goes to mukti - vyAvahArika satya. So, it is practically Dvaita. Still not enough. So what ended up happening?
Advaita started gobbling up every free-floating branches of Hinduism as Advaita and the root philosophy of Shankaracharya can be seen only in the small circles of scholars, who believed "Brahma satyaM, jaganmithyA jIvo brahmaiva nAparaH". Just as every "south-Indian" is labelled as "MadrAssi" and yet is not from Madras, similarly every Hindu started to be labeled as Advaitin, though he never followed Advaita.
Yes Swami Vivekananda did not start his speech in America by saying Brahma Satyam Jagan Mithya! Nonetheless, a Dwaitin can also not start his speech Vayu Jeevothama and Hari Sarvothama. Although it is possible for both of us to start a speech by saying anything. The point here is that yes numbers don't matter. But what matters is that how intuitively people agree with what you say without needing to quote any scriptures. Ultimately no religion or philosophy can capture that realty and condense it linguistically. Not even Advaita.
ReplyDeletePeople, who try to raise objection should atleast have basic knowledge of English. I never said that Vivekananda did not start his speech with "brahma satyam, jagan mithya..". I wrote - "Vivekananda never talked about core principles of Advaita... Imagine he mentioning to the American audience in his first speech and telling them that the whole world is an illusion and every soul there is the Supreme God!" Can this unknown person make a comment - "Madhvacharya never talked about Hari Sarvottama"? There is no point in making puerile and prejudiced comments.
DeletePlease make your your facts are strong before writing this article. If Shankaracharya didnt argue and win over buddhists at that time , Buddhism would be all over India and your Madhvacharya would be born as a buddhist. Anyways he didnt oppose buddhism , he won an argument over Buddists who were acting like you today that whatever they think is only right. You people resemble principles of Terrorism in Isam(Not Common Muslims) Saying they are only right and others wrong. I dont know what false knowledge are you talking about . Have you not read vedas???
ReplyDeleteVishnu is a smaller deity in vedas and in puranas he is mentioned as the supreme.
You people know only texts of Madhvacharya thats all!!!!!!!!
There are some blind people, who shut their eyes, even when bright light is brought to show them the truth. No one can help the lovers of blindness and falsehood. They are ill-read and ill-informed. When Buddhism was all over India, if Shankaracharya and many others were not born as Buddhists, thinking that every one in India would have been born as Buddhist is ignorance and stupidity beyond bounds. It is Kumarila Bhatta and other MimAmsakas who drove Buddhism out of India, not shankaracharya.
Deletehttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kumaarila/
These people should read the life history of Kumarila Bhatta to see to what extent he went to drive out Buddhism.
What a double standard! If Shankaracharya or Adavitins argue against other schools like Buddhism, then that is not opposing, but that is winning an argument over. If others raise objections or make arguments against Advaita, that is opposing, terrorism, and wrong act. It is pretty obvious as to who is exhibiting attitude of terrorism, cult mentality, fanaticism, and intolerance. Advaita can claim that they only are right and others are wrong that too without any supporting arguments. But no one else can claim that they are right and Advaita is wrong and even with supporting arguments. If these fanatics see any opposing remarks, they immediately make so much noise and behave like those terrorists only and pounce upon the people, who make the critical remarks. These fanatic zealots never read any scriptures - leave alone Vedas, Itihasas and Puranas, they never read works of their own teacher, Shankaracharya.
Narayana Sukta says - "nArAyaNAdbrahmA jAyate, nArAyaNAdrudro jAyate...".
PuruShasukta talks so much about the glory of PuruSha-nAmaka paramAtma. Who is Purusha? Again nArAyaNa sUkta itself answers- "puruSho ha vai nArAyaNo.akAmayata prajAssRujIyeti..". NArayana alone is that puruSha shabda-vAchya. There are many more shruti and smruti pramAnas which say Purusha refers to Narayana and that glorify Narayana.
There are only two itihAsa - Ramayana and Mahabharata. They speak about the glor of Vishnu and his avatAras Sri Rama and Sri Krishna. Even shaiva purANas ShivapurANa, liMga purANa and skanda purANa talk about the glory of Vishnu. Even though there are some episodes like shiva appearing like pillar of lingakruti and Brahma andVishnu trying to find the end of it, that has been explained elsewhere in this site itself.
That is why it is said - vede rAmAyane chaiva purANe bhArate tathA, AdAvante cha madhye cha hariH sarvatra gIyate.
Shankaracharya himself commented in several places in his commentaries pointing to supremacy of Narayana. One can see his commentaries on Upanishads and Gita. For example in Gita, while commenting on "IShvarassarvabhUtAnAM hrUddeshe.arjuna tiShThati (18-61)", he could have easily said "Ishvara here refers to Rudra" as Sri Krishna also referred in Third Person. But he says - "IshvaraH IshanashIlaH nArAyaNaH".
Similarly - Gita verse - yo lokatrayamAvishya bibhartyavyaya IshvaraH || 15\-17||
Shankaracharya comments - "IshvaraH sarvaj~naH nArAyaNAkhyaH IshanashIlaH"
Of course he composed stotras on many deities. But, in the last moments of his mother, he told her only Krishna mantra, not Shiva mantra. In the last moments of life what is needed means Govinda-nAma japa and that is why he composed Bhaja Govindam - samprApte sannihite kAle nahi nahi rakShati DukRuMkaraNe - bhaja govindam.".
The puerile, immature, cultist, ignorant and terrorist comments of such people can be ignored, but still for the benefit of other readers, it has been answered.
@The Web Writer
DeleteMost of what you wrote are due to lack of knowledge in writings of your own acharya
Not to forget Shankaracharya's work on Bhajan Govintham where he says
"samprÄptÄ sannihitÄ kÄlÄ
nahi nahi rakį¹£ati įøukriį¹ karaį¹Ä "
What does it mean? When you are in death bed no amount of knowledge can save you. So recite his (Govinda's) name to free you from suffering
Does it sound like addressing minor god to you? Also in Purusha Suktha (Rig Veda) there is a clear reference to "husband of lakshmi". Who else it can be
Bramha satya jagat mithya is not self made verse if shankrachrya it is present in Niralamba Upnishad-
ReplyDeleteą¤¤ą¤Ŗ ą¤ą¤¤ि ą¤ ą¤¬्ą¤°ą¤¹्ą¤® ą¤øą¤¤्ą¤Æं ą¤ą¤ą¤Ø्ą¤®िą¤„्ą¤Æे ą¤¤्ą¤Æą¤Ŗą¤°ोą¤्ą¤· ą¤्ą¤ाą¤Øाą¤्ą¤Øिą¤Øा ą¤¬्ą¤°ą¤¹्ą¤®ाą¤¦्ą¤Æैą¤¶्ą¤µą¤°्ą¤Æाą¤¶ाą¤øिą¤¦्ą¤§ą¤øą¤्ą¤ą¤²्ą¤Ŗ ą¤¬ीą¤ą¤øą¤Ø्ą¤¤ाą¤Ŗं ą¤¤ą¤Ŗः ।
tapa iti ca brahma satyaį¹ jaganmithyetyaparokį¹£a- jƱÄnÄgninÄ brahmÄdyaiÅvaryÄÅÄsiddhasaį¹ kalpa- bÄ«jasantÄpaį¹ tapaįø„ ।
Please correct it.
Some of the upanishads are fake and some of them are corrupted by some people very badly. That is why both Shankaracharya and Madhvacharya wrote commentaries on the ten principal Upanishads only and they did not even refer to this one. If Shankaracharya used a statement from that upaniShad, he would have mentioned atleast the name of that in any of his works. He never even mentioned that. That should ring the bell. There are no authentic commentaries on Niralamba upanishad. There is no adhyayana krama for that either.
DeleteSimply talking against Shankaracharya doesn't bring in anything.. I have seen and seeing even today that the Madhvas hate Shankaracharya. If Shankaracharya is or Advaita is wrong how can Madhvacharya philosophy be correct? Madhvas as i know have their own Calender and News.. they live like Aliens on Earth.. Vishnu is always Great for them and their Life is only Vishnu and nobody else. Advaita tells about all.. Brahma and Shiva too are Gods and have their own identity but Madhvas have only Vishnu in their Life.. nothing else.. i see Madhvas who always blame Shaivaites for everything.. if the person who has given a long answer has any knowledge about Shiva then it is astonishing.. but checking the net and sending the links doesn't answer anything because Madhvas don't talk about Shiva.. Also it is by Shankaracharya that Hinduism is relevant today and that's the Truth..
ReplyDeletePeople, who do not even have the basic common sense to differentiate between person and philosophy cannot be helped at all.
Delete1. There is not a single statement in the entire article, which talked about any personal aspect of Shankaracharya. Where from did this wild imagination that there is "simply talking against ShankarachArya" come?
2. yadbhAvam tadbhavati. They must be having tremendous hatred for Madhva and so they imagine that the Madhvas hate Shankaracharya. All these strange people just blabber something without any supporting statement. Can these strange characters show one single statement in the article which shows "hatred to Shankarachara"?
3. "If Shankaracharya or Advaita is wrong, how can Madhvacharya be correct?" - Even a third grader will not ask this. This is like asking "If Mandana Misra is wrong, how can Shankaracharya be correct?". Because Advaita is wrong, Madhvacharya is correct. That is not Rocket science.
4. Is this guy for real? Madhvas can not have their own calendar and news? Who is he to question that?
5. "they live like aliens on Earth" - this is indicative of the terrible hatred this guy has towards Madhvas and simply exhibiting the devilish temper exposing his own venomous attitude.
6. This guy is completely ignorant of dasarapadas, which are about so many gods. That is ignorance at its peak.
7. This guy has complete ignorance about various schools and does not even know the role played by Mimamsakas in driving out Buddhism.
8. Why do these people talk about behavior of people - Madhvas blame shaivaites and shaivaits blame Madhvas, etc.? What is this person doing? There is not a single statement blaming Shankaracharya in this article. Then this person hallucinated that there are statements in the article blaming Shankaracharya. And then this guy starts blaming Madhvacharya, Madhvas and Madhva philosophy. A typical cult mind.
Sir,
ReplyDeleteI've seen many peoples who are ignorant saivites who link the Saiva philosophy with AdvaitVedanta when I've a debate with them and present them verses from all the puranas(even from the tamasic puranas like Skanda and Devi-Bhagawatam) to prove that Hari is Sarvottam then they say that I'm only quoting one sided verses and I'm not presenting the other side where Siva is glorified and when I'm quoting only from the Satwik Puranas then they start quoting from the tamasic puranas which is also one sided. Please kindly tell me how to defeat these jerks.
There are two kinds of pramANAs - sAvakAsha (has alternate meaning and can be interpreted in some other way) and niravakAsha (has no alternate meaning and can not be interpreted in another way). All statements that speak of Shiva supremacy have alternate interpretation. So is not the case with statements saying Vishnu Supremacy. There is not a single shruti statement which says that Shiva is superior to Vishnu. There are many shruti statements saying Vishnu supremacy. There is not a single shruti sentence saying Shiva supremacy. Even Tamasik purana quotes are sAvakAsha. Sri Krishna said "mattaH parataram nAnyat kiMchidasti dhanaMjaya (There is none an nothing that is greater than me)". Not even in a single place, Shiva made any such claim. All the names of Shiva - like Rudra, ShaMkara, sthANu are applicable to Vishnu also. Are the names like Vishnu and NaaraayaNa applicable to Shiva? Four things are vital to win an argument among a much bigger list - Extensive knowledge of various scriptures, SamayasphUrti (special skill to respond with right things at right moment), logical skills and good grasp of various works and thoughts of the opponent philosophy.
DeleteI'm a shudra by birth I believe in Srimad Ananda Theertharu and Dwaita philosophy can I follow principles of Sri Madhvacharyaru, Is there restriction for us..? ��
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. There is no restriction. Any one can follow that. It is the same philosophy as followed by Dhruva and Prahlada.
DeleteYou are already a Tattvavadi the moment you are touched by Shri Madhvacharya's Philosophy. Caste has no bearing in following Philosophy and learning scriptures. Don't let any such antiquated notions hold you back. We only have Varna system. The day you started on this path, from that day onwards you are already a Brahmin. Was Shri Kanakadasaru not a Shudra by birth? Was Bhagavan Veda Vyasaru not born to a Shudra mother? We bow down to both of them!
DeleteThank u sir, for such a deep clarity on the subject matter. There are many vaisnavas who practice devotional service to the personal form of vishnu tattva deities. However at times they're not very adept in arguments or counter arguments like that. So when they face advaitins whose only goal is to blaspheme vishnu and his non impersonal philosophy. They feel helpless. These vaisnavas do read scriptures but not with the motive of defending against mayavadis. So sir, do u offer any course on how to defend principles of pure bhakti and expose the faults of mayavadis.Please kindly let me know.
ReplyDeleteHari om š Sri madhvacbharya not denys the advaitic veiw of Moksha as per commentary by b N. K Sharma' the mukta jivas can enjoy in its own bliss like advaita 'and in that state jiva will not conscious of external world (like in deep sleep we are not conscious of eternal things ) may be that will be the last stage of the liberation because in that state jiva will not aware of its existence so there will be no coming back neither in samsara nor in spiritual world(complete liberation forever ) as said by sri aurobindo at some point mukta jiva will get bored in spiritual world and they will enter that state of nirvana (thoughts less, desireless unconscious nonawareness state ) and in this state non one will aware to get bored because jiva will not aware of its existence so complete liberation (1st from samsara then reaching spiritual world like vaikuntha then from spiritual world ) forever in deep sleep (complete liberation ) it look like every one is own same path may bhuddhism dvaita or advaita what are your views on this thanksš
ReplyDeleteVery good writing Shriman, asides this, can you please provide a detailed vyakhyana on Rig veda mantra (7.40.5): "asya devasya mÄ«įø»huį¹£o vayÄ viį¹£į¹or eį¹£asya prabhį¹the havirbhiįø„ vide hi rudro rudriyam mahitvaį¹ yÄsiį¹£į¹aį¹ vartir aÅvinÄv irÄvat" . I'm asking for it for Because it proves Vishnu sarvottamatva by saying Rudra gained his Rudrian might by Propieting Vishnu who is very bestowful, but some ignorant shaivites are arguing and showing me the various translation done by Indian & western scholars and saying it nothing says like that, but the real meaning will given as per the directions of vaidika acharyas, and I'm pretty sure that tattvavadi acharyas must have elaborately explained this mantra, therefore please can you elaborate on this mantra. Hare Srinivasa.
ReplyDeleteRespected site moderators: The postings of the reader(s) going by the name 'Anonymous' appear to be incoherent. The postings appear to engage someone with innocent claims (Am I eligible for tattvavada?), then moves to quoting out of context what BNKS, Sri Aurobindo have written and then cites a sacred mantra from Vasishta mandala 7 of Rig Veda, again out of context to lead to internecine confrontations. So, in three postings one gets emancipation by tattva-vada and becomes enlightened enough to quote a veda mantra? Various errors in typo and editing of the second posting remind me of similar postings in many other portals inciting controversies. Misquoting Rig Veda is very easy as veda mantras can have different types of interpretations. But the specific translation, posed for clarification, itself is a mischievous one. The sukta is for visve devas (all the devas in toto), verses 3,4 and 6 name others vedic Deities; Srimad Madhva has not written commentary on it and so any interpretation of this mantra done casually without going thru the rigor Acharya had followed for first 40 suktas, is fallacious. One pada, quarter, of the mantra describes an attribute of Vishnu in the context of visve devas. But this Anonymous person is building animosity first and then brings in misinterpretation of this vedic mantra as a whole in a seditious purpose. Kindly moderate such postings or compel the posters to identify themselves. I am sure MPM site is not in the business of providing space to people who misinterpret shruti and shaastra interpretations that are baseless and out of context even if it sounds pleasing because the writer praises Sri Madhva as a flattery. This is an old game of trolls, please do not fall for it.
ReplyDeleteThe arguments about which branch of Hinduism is right is itself invalid because none of them prove the scriptures are right. How one should know which is correct. What if some obscure jungle religion is right and not the known religions. The question also arise why would God create such bad world and let everyone suffer. And why God need worship anyway. Why would he bless those who worship him and not others. If God is eternal then doesn't it mean that he himself is in jail. Because how can he go out of existence. Simple reasoning proves that God is just a human belief and nothing more. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteVery good article sir. People seem to forget that Madhvacharyaru is not Anti-shaiva. His family deity was literally Ananteshwara which is partially a shivaroopa. Our Dvaitha Siddhanta will never fall. Harisarvaotthama Vaayujeevottama !
ReplyDelete